Become a fair, accountable "Partner" , Koodo.

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The only reason Koodo has any business at all right now is because of the partnerships they've formed with the current carriers in Canada, especially Ontario.

The thing is, the only reason why most of Canada's mobile users haven't switched to Wind or Mobilcity is because the included service area is a major issue. It's only an issue because Rogers, Bell and Telus refuse to allow them to use their spectrum cheap. The first carrier to allow Wind on their network for a reasonable fee, or to partner with rather then buy Wind by adopting it's pricing model could capture close to 100% of the market share in Ontario, mark my words. If you don't do something about this soon, if they manage to capture some 700mhz, they will literally overtake every other carrier in their service areas in a matter of 2 years.

I'm only saying this to Koodo/Telus because I'm sick and tired of watching the rest of the world get services at completely reasonable prices while we get gouged for things that should be on par with the rest of the world.

Mobile phone manufacturers have changed. They HATE carrier restrictions on their products and slow update times, because it causes major dissatisfaction in their customers. iPhones, Nexus devices, Motorola and Sony products will very soon (or are already) be available at cheaper then carrier retail pricing. The only edge you have is 2 year contracted device subsidy (the tab), which amounts to nothing more then thinly veiled "low risk credit" to people who have poor credit scores.

On Wind, incoming texts off network are free and if you wanted to, you COULD wait to reply once you're back in a service area, or use something like hangouts or BBM. They offer CHEAPER roaming packages OUTSIDE of Canada because USA carriers are more willing to cut Wind a break then the local ones who see them as a threat. I personally don't care about off-network data much. I won't need data while I'm driving (as long as I get GPS info prior to leaving the service area it's all good.) and once I reach my destination, if I'm not in a home carrier mobile data area, I have never had trouble finding WIFI.

Fortunately, most major cities (all the places I would generally go anyway) have full Wind service. Unfortunately, I have one friend in the nearby county. If I didn't have that ONE friend in the county, or if he moved, I would have nearly no reason to stay with Koodo or any other incumbent and overpriced carrier, unless my desired handset (which I always buy outright) didn't support AWS in any other country then Canada(unlikely).

I realize I'm the worst customer possible for every mobile carrier in this country. I don't subsidize phones, I don't go on contracts, and I have the freedom to choose the best plan available for me whenever I want. I realize that carriers actually don't want me at all. The same goes for internet service, I won't subscribe to anyone who has less then 30mbps service and unlimited data, but, I'm willing to pay hundreds a month for it. I'm a nightmare customer and most major telecarriers of all types don't even want my business, they've proven that.

Charging for something that that costs virtually nothing when it's all said and done is ridiculous. The Peering Arrangements (that the major telecarriers in this country have had since the 90's) ensure that they pay nothing but network upkeep and electricity for data. The "volume" of data is a made up figure that they all use to install a "meter" on our bills, and therefore find ways to charge us more for "overuse".

Notice that as technology and compression and speeds IMPROVED, the $ per MB actually INCREASED and the caps DECREASED with no scientifically acceptable reason?!!? And the rich media we can consume on our devices via the internet has actually INCREASED IN SIZE, not decreased. We've accepted this and most of us haven't woken up to the fact that we're being scammed, or they've accepted it like me because we have almost no choice. It's either: accept the ridiculous caps and charges, or go without mobile data, which in this day and age is somewhat impossible and inconvenient.

So. Partner with Wind or adopt their pricing model. Or, lose when they steamroll you.
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Dylan Brown

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Posted 5 years ago

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Timo Tuokkola, Mobile Master

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There were no speed limits on roads when cars wouldn't go more than 20 mph. Increased capabilities lead to the implementation of limits.
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Sophia, Mobile Master

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Tsk, mattjs, mattjs... when on earth did you start getting the impression that 'mobile masters' - between inverted commas even - live in Koodo's pocket??? We do think and speak for ourselves, and we are not afraid to share our opinions, you must know that by now :)
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mattjs

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I didn't say that Mobile Masters are in "koodo's pocket", Sophia. I certainly don't think that either.

However, I'm pointing out to the OP that a large portion of posts on this forum come from people who generally have a positive relationship with Koodo, either through the mobile masters program, or through employment with Koodo. Given the makeup of regular posters here, keeping these relationships in mind, the OP will no doubt get some hostility with a post of this nature, he is essentially attacking the current policy after all. That's all. :)
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Sophia, Mobile Master

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Well, I won't repeat ad nauseum what my feelings are towards Canadian carriers and their pricing. You saw the overall gist when the July apocalypse took place. I'm simply with Koodo because 1) My husband and I live in the boonies, we have no choice but to stick with the Big 3 and 2) after lots of research, humming, hawing, comparing and complaining, Koodo prepaid suits me best.
I don't think I'm a prime example of why I have a positive relationship with Koodo ;)
THAT said, I do like Koodo because the people who work for them, and my fellow mobile masters, and this community in general, give me the positive vibe and interaction that suits me :)

I realize this is getting off topic, but I really don't have anything to say about the OP (least of all hostile), because frankly some of it is over my head and I don't think things are that easy to change... but if his post has the desired effect, I'd be happy indeed for all parties involved :)
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Zaphod Beeblebrox

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" I do like Koodo because the people who work for them, and my fellow mobile masters, and this community in general, give me the positive vibe and interaction that suits me"

That right there is why I do my best to give the best possible experience when they need help and also makes me more proud to work for this company.

(No, I do not want a promotion out of this :P )

Thank you for that, Sophia
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Myke

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As a Koodo rep, while I may understand the way Koodo does certain things, but no means do I agree with it(IE: The "new" tab system"). So Mattjs, please don't try and put words into our mouths that aren't they. We aren't blind employees that are "yes men". We have a mind of our own and if there is ever something that I disagree with, I will always voice my opinion on it.
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Jonathan I, Mobile Master

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I only have one thing to say:

tl;dr
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Timo Tuokkola, Mobile Master

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The fact that they don't offer service in T-bay is another good reason.
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Myke

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Okay, make that 2 reasons :P
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Dylan Brown

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Hey Myke... the data USAGE itself is truly unlimited, and they do the same thing that everyone else should be doing - SLOWING DOWN, not charging massive ammounts, to the heavy users. It's 50$ a month for unlimited everything and 5gb of full speed AWS data. Then, if you go over 5gb, they lower it to half the speed. If you do ANOTHER 5gb, they put you on like... dialup speeds. But that's 10gb of mobile data you have to crank through. Name another carrier that gives you unlimited everything and 10gb of data for less then $50 PREPAID with no contract, with the comfort in knowing that you'll never, ever exceed that because you simply CAN'T even if you wanted to. Oh right, nobody except Wind, sasktel, etc. The big three have been making it very hard for them to expand because they're a real clear and present danger to their businesses.
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Myke

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Maybe it's okay for you to accept slow speeds, but it's not for me.

NO PROVIDER should EVER throttled speeds. There is absolutely no reason for it. Saying that your data is unlimited and then throttling the speeds is misleading and can be seen as an outright lie. If it's not true unlimited(meaning I can do whatever without my speeds being affected) then it should not be advised as unlimited. It's a backhanded tactic, they way Wind does it.
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rikkster, Mobile Master

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So it's better to cap data usage and charge an overage? I'm not understanding how this can possibly be perceived as a lie. The data is still getting through. WIND clearly explains their fair usage policy, if you break the rules those are the consequences.

It only makes sense that if you habitually go over the 5 or 10 GB limit, which up until that point data is served at regular speed and that's a massive amount of data to go through in a month for most people, then I see every reason for WIND to impose restrictions that limit the amount of data used.
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Zaphod Beeblebrox

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Given Wind's current financial situation, it is near impossible for that company to "steamroll" Koodo
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Dylan Brown

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Wind isn't in trouble at all. They're hiring more people right now for customer service and other departments. WIND Mobile has been going through a bit of a resurgence in the Canadian market. Not only is the company’s subscriber base up to 637,000+ but ARPU is on the rise, up 10% over the same period last year. It may not have an LTE network with which to compete head-to-head against the incumbents, but it’s certainly stealing customers in the places they can actually get to.
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Myke

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They are losing profits. A company can do all the hiring they want(generally contracted for cheaper rates) but bottom, there are reports that Wind is losing money and I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that they are even in the red.

If you love Wind so much, go post on their forum. This forum is for Koodo-centric topics, not a "lets love Wind and bash Koodo".
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Sophia, Mobile Master

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I don't think Wind has a forum any more, Myke... they shut it because of all the complaints :)
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Myke

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Just more reason to not go with Wind. They can't handle having public complaints against them. Who would want to go with a company that tries and hides their flaws?
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rikkster, Mobile Master

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Or it could be a way to keep costs down.
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Rocky Balboa

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My 2 cents is if you don't agree with any cell phone providers pricing or policies you can always cancel and go with someone else. As a consumer you have this flexibility to go where and when you want. If a company isn't willing to compensate you at your intentions well that's just the nature of the beast. Also to add what you said you openly admitted being a "nightmare" customer. So I say to you you're your own worst enemy. Have a good day
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Mo D.

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I did read this. I am an MM. I am not paid to defend Koodo to the death, I am not paid anything, but we are encouraged to be supportive and to have our own reasonable thoughts. I think your post is well laid out. And I wish things would go as you suggest. Sadly the only thing driving "change" in this industry is competition or demand. Plan prices used to be a wondrous thing to watch until the CRTC laws that led to "The Great Wireless Retaliation". Wind is looking less and less like a competitor with its woes. So less and less "need" for plans to compete at that level. We don't use minutes as much anymore so now they are being handed out like halloween candy, but the demand for data / opportunity to turn a buck from it still exists. I am a user like you, I believe in getting any device I want to buy for the full price. I encourage everyone I know to do this. Hopefully it will convert enough people that we can start seeing plan competition and stop paying for plans that subsidize Tabs. Sadly though, it is a consumer market. Those who clamour for change are told "if you don't like it, leave". I feel that was inly applicable when our plan prices were more competitive
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Some random Mobile Master, Mobile Master

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You raise many good points Dylan, and I'll agree your post was well constructed. What you said in it is well known by many Canadian wireless subscribers.

However, there is one big, giant reason why the 3 main carriers in Canada continue to do business the way they do right now: because they can. Simple as that.

As many members have mentioned before (Ivan comes to mind), as long as we'll be willing to continue paying the asked price, what incentive does a carrier have to lower pricing? I'm a customer myself and would absolutely LOVE lower prices, but I can see why we don't get them. This is what happened with voice minutes. When demand for voice dropped and demand for data climbed, what happened to plans? They didn't get any cheaper, but we got unlimited buckets of voice minutes, rendering each of these minutes cheaper. The day we stop paying the price to get our data fix, things will (maybe?) change.

If everyone went prepaid first thing tomorrow morning, I'd really be curious to see what would happen to the current market structure!
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Mark Kokolsky

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The big 3 used the extra money that they charged customers to build one of the best wireless networks in the world. And now Wind comes in and thinks they should be able to use the big 3's multi billion dollar network for dollar store prices?

That's like saying you built a way nicer house than me, and I cant afford one like it, so you should let me live in your house for next to nothing.

You get to pick 2 out of 3 things:
-Low prices
-Quality Service
-Great coverage

Which ones do you pick?

And for a fun read.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-...
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Ivan, Mobile Master

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I'm so tired of this best network crap. As someone who's actually traveled, the argument doesn't hold water for me.
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rikkster, Mobile Master

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Mark: Would this happen to be the same big three that used 'extra cash' to cry foul about Verizon's proposed entry into Canada? Remember the daily bombardment of full page newspaper, television, radio and internet advertising? Now that the dust has settled, the big three are back at what they do best and that's laughing all the way to the bank. Your hard earned wireless dollars at work.

The difference with WIND is that they're an entity all their own. No start-up assistance from the incumbents, no sharing of towers other than a roaming agreement with Rogers. WIND is also the first Canadian carrier to use the AWS spectrum. Others followed afterward, only after realizing that this area of the spectrum was in fact a lucrative one. The AWS spectrum was initially auctioned off back in 2008 and at the time, the big three had little interest in building networks based around the AWS spectrum.

I do believe you're confusing this with Verizon's proposed entry into Canada, where the big three argued incessantly that Verizon would take over their billion-dollar network they'd spent decades building. The truth of the matter is, Verizon is a big enough entity that it could have easily set up shop in this country by erecting its own towers and creating a wireless network they could rightly call their own and that's what the big three were most afraid of.

The fun part of that read is the comments section.
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Paul Deschamps, Mobile Master

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I dont know why you think Wind is going to take over anything when they havent done any expansión lately, theyre trying to see the company & the owner of Wind has made a public statement that he is done investing any more money into Canada. I was rooting for wind expansión to do the exact things your wishing would occur for a couple years now & really thought it was going to happen but its not looking good with the points Ive made above. There is a very Slim glimmer of hope though with Wind being part of the spectrum auction coming up in the new year & I for one hope Wind wins that auction & actually uses it to expand their coverage but I have a feeling it could just be used to help the sale of the company If they are to win it.
The beginning of the new year will be very interesting & could be the beginning of a change for Canadian Telecom, however that chance is very Slim & o la time will tell.
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Ivan, Mobile Master

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Wind's parent has very deep pockets. But, we'll see how serious they are.
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Mark Kokolsky

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If I remember the article correctly, winds parent company basically said investing in Canada was a mistake. So its not nessecarily if they have the money, its if the parent company wants to spend the money.
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Paul Deschamps, Mobile Master

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Theyre (Globalive) in the final auction so theres hope of it http://mobilesyrup.com/2013/11/09/ind...
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Myke

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Didn't Wind's CEo actually step down? I know he said he regretted investing in Canada.
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Dylan Brown

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yes and no. The foreign investor publically regretted investing in Canada and blasted government policy. The CEO of Wind stepped down based on those same CRTC decisions which made it impossible to expand their vision for Canada, and to protect his future career and not become "That guy who ran Wind into the ground" because regardless of the absolute fact that it is only the CRTC wireless spectrum policies that is making Wind's growth slower then expected, he would still be blamed for any potential failure that might be looming.
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Ivan, Mobile Master

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Dylan, I agree with pretty much everything you've stated.

But, the ONLY thing that will make a carrier listen to regarding what you should be paying is if you're paying what they're asking.

You've stated that you're fine with not having data between zones as you can usually grab WiFi. But then, you state that if one of your friends didn't live outside the network, you'd be switching. Is there no WiFi in his home?

I was fine with not having data travelling between London and Kitchener. But then, Koodo had a promotion that was reasonable enough ($56 for unlimited calling/messaging and 2 GB data) and my wife didn't really care for data (so her she grabbed the $25 plan with enough minutes and free evenings/weekends). We were paying $75/month with Wind. As I usually used up only ~1.5 GB, the lower data cap didn't bother me. So that extra $6 a month for Koodo was worth it for our situation as it was cheaper than having satellite radio for those frequent drives.

If my wife was a smartphone and a data addict like me, we wouldn't have left. If she decides that she wants data, we may have to port her line away, depending on how much data she'd want.
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Myke

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Let's be honest here. The only way the big 3 will ever do any changes is if they see that they are losing profits. The only way to do that is for customers to cancel their accounts and NOT have a cell phone.

The likelyhood of that happening is slim to none, because people seem to think they need a cell phone to survive.
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Ivan, Mobile Master

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Couldn't have put it better. I know a lot of people who live within Wind zones (with more than acceptable coverage, in my opinion), but when I ask them why they don't switch, they whine about Wind's network. Yes it's inferior, and I'll never deny that. I'm willing to pay the premium for a better network, but not double the price.

If I had to, I could live with Wind.
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Dylan Brown

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Does it not make more sense, to capture more guaranteed, happy, paying customers who will continue to use your services without complaint over penalizing your users for "overuse" because you want to make a ton more money in the short term?

One thing a lot of people forget is that cellular providers have the opportunity to become home internet service providers as well, but they haven't, because if they do that, they are forced to admit that data doesn't cost them anything.

I'm really excited for the 700mhz auction. If the claim that 25% was set aside for newcomers, and globalive gets it, they'll be able to cover relatively flat regions (like all of ontario below london area) with on-network coverage with a tiny amount of cell towers. This is a HUGE HUGE deal and the engineers at the big three know it. For a highly technical person like me I understand the massive boon this would be to someone like Wind.

Windsor had a massive amount of people hop to Wind when they came here even though the coverage is so low spread. This is due to this being a highly unemployed, depressed region of Ontario. People around here all have cell phones but often struggle to pay the bills, especially when they go over their caps. They can't afford new phones outright by and large so they're lured into long contracts to get the nicer phones but don't realize that they may pay dearly if they're not careful or they don't understand the hardware. This is evidenced by all the brand new phones on classifieds sites asking for "pay off contract". Just check kijiji windsor. I found a freaking Galaxy s4 a week after they were released for 350! Unlocked! People are giving away iphone 5s as long as people take their contacts because their service was shut off in the first month from watching too much Vine.

But, because the region is flat, those "outer limit" cell towers cover the county a LOT, however, because they're forced to use 1900/2100mhz AWS they don't work indoors or against trees or in basement apartments or through other buildings very well. If they had 700mhz, or even 900mhz (which is all the big three, which is why they have such great coverage) this would be a non-issue. Their coverage would immediately expand, they would capture the entire surrounding county for less then 20,000 in actual broadcast hardware and less then 1,000,000 in land, and bob's yer uncle, they win, if they continue to keep their pricing model. This will of course force the big three to compete and we all win, but once that happens poor little Wind might be the springboard for change, but broken once the marketing machine at the big three ramps up.

It's really unfair to consumers. But I do agree that businesses have the right to make money. That's fair and we all want to be successful. However, I personally believe the internet and communication has become a fundamental HUMAN RIGHT, and since cell phones are now practically the only viable way we have to contact publicly funded emergency services, and all other public services, there has to be some consumer protection put into place to stimulate competition and protect more affordable services for the every-man.
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Some random Mobile Master, Mobile Master

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You also don't need free speech to survive, but it's a human right.

I have to give it to you Ivan, you ALWAYS come up with the perfect example! :) I highly agree with you!
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Myke

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I would argue that Free Speech is an actual right(the ability to actively speak out against your government without fear of repercussions), where as the Internet isn't a right. If Internet was a right, it'd be free(which it isn't).
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Timo Tuokkola, Mobile Master

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Accessing the internet without censorship may be a basic right. Accessing it from your cellphone is not.
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Myke

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Agree with Timo's stance.
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Ivan, Mobile Master

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Not everything that's a basic human right is free, save for thought and maybe air.

I think that many of us can agree that things like food/drink, shelter, mobility (travel), safety, education, and healthcare are some pretty universal human rights. Not one of those things are free. I don't expect anyone to provide those for me, but I do expect that those things be available at a reasonable cost.

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